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Extra examples from Sammy's '''[[User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi|Hanabi page]]'''
{{pill|⚠ Work in progress|#fa8|#fc8|s=1.2}}


{{pill|⚠ Work in progress|#fa8|#fc8|s=1|w=bold}}
{{info|Extra examples from Sammy's '''[[User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi|Hanabi page]]'''}}


== {{pill|Interpretation|#aff|#cfd}} ==
== <div style="background:linear-gradient(45deg,#aff,#cfd,#fff0 40rem);padding:.25rem .5rem;border-top-left-radius:.5rem;">Interpretation</div> ==


=== Extraction ===


=== 2025-07-05 ===
[https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50013 Forum post] | 2026-07-02


<div style="display:flex;gap:1rem;"><div>
* Tyrion to Kaznaka: these 2 cards are green.
{{cardholder|{{Hr|5}}{{Hw|2|n=}}{{Hr|2|n=}}{{Hy|4}} |Alice 🡲}}


{{cardholder|{{Hy|2}}{{Hg|1}}{{Hb|2}}{{Hm|4|c=|n=}} |Bob 🡲}}
{{hGame
|{{hTable|1|2|2|4|3|m=1|k=|d=33|dc=white}}
|{{hDiscard|r=34|g=34}}
|clues=3
|A=MrGrogu
|B=Kaznaka
|C=Feen
|D=Tyrion
|E=nishikawa
|a={{hk|5}}{{hg|5}}{{hk|2}}{{hy|2}}
|b={{hm|5|{{g}}|c=}}{{hg|4|c=}}{{hy|4}}{{hw|4}}
|c={{hm|1}}{{hy|5}}{{hb|3}}{{hr|5}}
|d={{hw|3}}{{hy|1}}{{hk|2}}{{hg|1}}
|e={{hb|1}}{{hr|1}}{{hg|3|c=}}{{hr|1}}
|float=left
}}
 
'''The interpretation of a 4 clue is not clear to all players'''
 
{{hg|3|c=}} can play on its own given enough context (negative multi is enough here), so even after {{hg|3|c=}} plays, a 4 clue on its own will lead to a save misinterpretation if the receiver does not have one of the following context:
:a) all critical 4 ({{hr|4}} and {{hg|4}}) are visible
:b) negative critical colour ({{card|r|color={{w}}|background={{r}}}} and {{card|g|color={{w}}|background={{g}}}})
:c) negative critical chop (i.e. while {{hr|4}} and {{hg|4}} were discarded, the chop card was not saved)
Notice how:
:a) depends on information in other hands which is hidden from at least one player.
:b) and c) depend on information in the same hand which is available to all players.
 
If all the critical 4s were playable, the receiver will play their rightmost 4 as {{hr|4}} / {{hg|4}} and after {{hw|4}} plays, they understand the 4 clue was not a save and in fact a left-focused play clue and go on to play their left 4 too as a bonus.
 
The problem in this game is that {{hr|4}} is not playable so the team cannot wait to give a clear play clue due to {{hm|5}} on chop.
 
So every player is unsure if an extra clue is required to avoid {{hm|5}} discard because they could hold {{hr|4}} which would make ({{hw|4}} and) {{hg|4}} play.
 
'''The interpretation of a green clue is clear to all players'''
 
Since a 4 clue on its own may or may not be enough to play {{hg|4}}, colour takes away the save interpretation entirely and simplifies the thought process of every player.
 
Every player understands that MrGrogu must prevent {{hm|5}} bombing as {{hg|4}} (or {{hm|2}}) now.
If MrGrogu decided a fix clue is required but discards assuming Kaznaka will save {{cardholder|{{hm|1}}{{hy|5|n=}}{{hb|3}}{{hr|5|n=}} |Feen 🡲}}
, this would be a blunder since MrGrogu's hand (e.g. {{cardholder|{{hk}}{{hr|3}}{{hw|5}}{{hk|1}} |MrGrogu 🡲}}) could require Feen to begin a triple save and Kaznaka would be free to bomb {{hm|5|{{g}}|c=}}.
 
'''From MrGrogu pov'''
 
Either must play for {{hm|2}} {{hm|3}} {{hm|4}} or give a fix for {{hg|4}} now.
 
Context of g (or w) clue:
# Fix {{cardholder|{{hm|5|{{g}}|c=}}{{hg|4|c=|n=}}{{hy|4|n=}}{{hw|4|n=}} |Kaznaka 🡲}} = 0 blind plays
# Play {{hm|2}} {{hm|3}} {{hm|4}} = 3 blind plays
 
Convention is the fewest number of blind plays from your hand is the correct interpretation.
 
Imagine instead of {{cardholder|{{hm|5|{{g}}|c=}}{{hg|4|c=}}{{hy|4}}{{hw|4}} |Kaznaka 🡲}} we had {{cardholder|{{hm|5|{{y}}|c=}}{{hg|4}}{{hy|4|c=}}{{hw|4}} |Kaznaka 🡲}}.
 
Context of y clue:
# Play {{hy|3}} + fix {{cardholder|{{hm|5|{{y}}|c=}}{{hg|4|n=}}{{hy|4|c=|n=}}{{hw|4|n=}} |Kaznaka 🡲}} = 1 blind play
# Play {{hm|2}} {{hm|3}} {{hm|4}} = 3 blind plays


{{cardholder|{{Hm|1}}{{Hr|4}}{{Hb|4}}{{Hk|2|n=}} |Cathy 🡲}}
We all agree that a y clue clearly demands a blind play.


{{cardholder|{{Hy|1}}{{Hm|5|n=}}{{Hw|5|n=}}{{Hy|3|c=}} |Donald 🡲}}
Hypothetically if MrGrogu played a {{hy|3}}, what would MrGrogu do next round?
</div><div>
Go on to play for {{hm|2}} {{hm|3}} {{hm|4}} or give a fix {{cardholder|{{hm|5|{{y}}|c=}}{{hg|4|n=}}{{hy|4|c=|n=}}{{hw|4|n=}} |Kaznaka 🡲}}?
{{infoBox |color=#ddf |titleColor=#005
 
|title=Played
Why should the question of giving a fix on g+4 be any different to y+4?
|body={{hr|2}} {{hy|1}} {{hg|1}} {{hb|2}} {{hw|2}} {{hm|2}} {{hk|3}}
 
For a {{hm|2}} {{hm|3}} {{hm|4}} finesse, the best clue choices would be {{cardholder|{{hm|5|n=}}{{hg|4}}{{hy|4}}{{hw|4}} |Kaznaka 🡲}} / {{cardholder|{{hm|5|{{b}}|c=}}{{hg|4}}{{hy|4}}{{hw|4}} |Kaznaka 🡲}} / {{cardholder|{{hm|5|{{r}}|c=}}{{hg|4}}{{hy|4}}{{hw|4}} |Kaznaka 🡲}}.
 
'''The timing of the clue is good'''
 
From the clue-giver's point of view:
* apart from MrGrogu's hand every card they see is either trash or 5
* any of their cards could be non-trash, so it makes sense to give a clue and encourage all non-busy players to discard.
Because the timing of g clue (rather than discard) is otherwise unnecessary as has been pointed out, giving the clue now communicates to all other players more subtle information:
* there are no non-trash cards that we can't guarantee marking
* my hand (also mostly trash as it turns out) is more important than the cards I see
 
The benefits if we agree that MrGrogu must give a fix clue:
* their playable {{hk|5}} remains in finesse position while other hands draw new potential bluff targets
* the discard of the only other useful card in any hand ({{hk|2}}) is delayed
 
=== Prompt + Layered finesse ===
 
[https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46730 Forum post] | 2026-01-01
 
* Alice to Cathy: these 2 cards are yellow.
 
{{hTable}}
{{cardholder|{{hw|1}}{{hy|2}}{{hr|4}}{{hy|1|n=}} |Bob 🡲}}
{{cardholder|{{hg|4}}{{hb|4}}{{hy|3|c=}}{{hy|5|c=}} |Cathy 🡲}}
 
* Bob plays {{hy|1|n=}}.
* Cathy sees {{hy|2}} is layered behind a playable {{hw|1}}, so she could hold {{hy|3}}.
* Cathy discards to see if Bob tries to play {{hy|2}} next turn.
 
{{hTable||1}}
{{cardholder|{{hw|2}}{{hw|1}}{{hy|2}}{{hr|4}} |Bob 🡲}}
{{cardholder|{{hw|3}}{{hg|4}}{{hy|3|c=}}{{hy|5|c=}} |Cathy 🡲}}
 
{{infoBox |state=collapsed |background=#088
|title=Alice clues white
|body=&ZeroWidthSpace;
* Alice to Cathy: this card is white.
 
{{hTable||1}}
{{cardholder|{{hw|2}}{{hw|1}}{{hy|2}}{{hr|4}} |Bob 🡲}}
{{cardholder|{{hw|3|c=}}{{hg|4}}{{hy|3|c=}}{{hy|5|c=}} |Cathy 🡲}}
 
* Bob acknowledges the white clue and continues to look for {{hy|2}} because {{hw|1}} '''can be inside the {{hy|2}} layered finesse'''.
* Cathy sees a playable {{hw|2}} in Bob's hand, so she could hold {{hw|3}}.
}}
}}
{{infoBox |color=#fdd |titleColor=#500
|title=Discarded
|body={{hr|4}} {{hy|3}} {{hg|4}} {{hb|3}} {{hb|1}} {{hw|1}} {{hk|4}} {{hk|2}}
}}
:[https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/250703-0920/?table=697080440&player=84994396&comments=84994396&goto=37 Alice's view]
:[https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/250703-0920/?table=697080440&player=85786974&comments=84994396&goto=37 Donald's view]
</div><div>
{{Hw|2|n=}} {{Hr|2|n=}} are known trash


{{hy|3|c=}} is known not trash
* Bob blind plays his 2nd slot for {{hy|2}} and {{hw|1}} successfully plays.
</div></div>
* Cathy and Alice discard.
* Bob blind plays his 3rd slot {{hy|2}}.
* Cathy plays {{hy|3|c=}}.


==== 2024-08-02 ====
{{infoBox |state=collapsed |background=#088
|title=After the first layered finesse is resolved
|body=&ZeroWidthSpace;


Complex example with gap between clue giver and first response:
{{hTable||3|||1}}
* A clues {{Hy|4|c=}}
{{cardholder|{{hg|1}}{{hb|4}}{{hw|2}}{{hr|4}} |Bob 🡲}}
* B does something unrelated
{{cardholder|{{hr|2}}{{hw|3|c=}}{{hg|4}}{{hy|5|c=}} |Cathy 🡲}}
* C plays {{Hy|1}}
* D plays {{Hk|3}} as {{Hy|2}}
* E has {{Hy|3}} marked


* {{pill|Why isn't it layered?|#fa8|#fc8}} 🡆 Wrong question
{{infoBox |state=collapsed |background=rebeccapurple
* Should be thinking: {{pill|can it be a bluff?|#aff|#cfd}} / {{pill|do I need to keep playing?|#aff|#cfd}}
|title=Can Alice bluff here?
* [https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/240725-1000/?table=545167290&player=86691603&comments=84994396; Alice's view]
|body=&ZeroWidthSpace;
* [https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/240725-1000/?table=545167290&player=87540408&comments=84994396; Donald's view]


== {{pill|Endgame|#aff|#cfd}} ==
{{hTable||3|||1}}
{{cardholder|{{hg|1}}{{hb|4}}{{hw|2}}{{hr|4}} |Bob 🡲}}
{{cardholder|{{hr|2|c=}}{{hw|3|c=}}{{hg|4}}{{hy|5|c=}} |Cathy 🡲}}


: {{HDeck|3}} {{Hr|3}} {{Hy|4}} {{Hg|5}} {{Hb|5}} {{Hw|1}} {{Hclue|3}}
* Since Bob knows the white clue is a layered finesse, he must keep looking for {{hw|2}} before he can start looking for {{hr|1}} because {{hr|1}} '''can be inside the {{hw|2}} layered finesse''':
{{cardholder|{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hr|1}}{{hw|2}} |Bob 🡲}}
* So Alice cannot bluff a player who is already in the middle of responding to a finesse if it can be layered.
{{cardholder|{{hr|1}}{{hk}}{{hw|2}}{{hk}} |Bob 🡲}}
}}


{{cardholder|{{HBack}}{{HBack}}{{HBack|4|{{w}}|n=|c=}}{{HBack|5|{{r}}|n=|c=}} |Alice 🡲}}
* Bob knows the white clue cannot be a bluff because Cathy would not discard unless she sees a playable {{hw|2}} in Bob's hand.
{{cardholder|{{Hw|2}}{{Hk}}{{Hk}}{{Hk}} |Bob 🡲}}
* So Bob knows he is promised {{hw|2}} and keeps playing each slot from his now '''3rd slot''' left to right until his {{hw|2}} is played.
{{cardholder|{{Hk}}{{Hk}}{{Hr|4|n=|c=}}{{Hw|5|n=|c=}} |Cathy 🡲}}
}}
{{cardholder|{{Hw|3}}{{Hk}}{{Hk}}{{Hy|5|n=|c=}} |Donald 🡲}}
{{cardholder|{{Hw|4}}{{Hk}}{{Hk}}{{Hw|3|n=|c=}} |Emily 🡲}}


{{infoBoxes3 |minWidth=max-content |state=collapsed |color=rebeccapurple
=== Finesse + Promise Bluff ===
|title1=What is the critical colour?
|body1='''Grouped by colour:'''
:{{cardholder|b={{y}}|{{Hk|p=A|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=B|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=C|d=#324}}{{Hy|5|p=D|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=E|d=#324}} }}
:{{cardholder|b={{r}}|{{Hk|p=A}}{{Hk|p=B}}{{Hr|4|p=C}}{{Hk|p=D}}{{Hk|p=E}} }} {{cardholder|b={{r}}|{{Hr|5|p=A}} }}
:{{cardholder|b={{w}}|{{Hw|p=A|d=#324|c=}}{{Hw|2|p=B|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=C|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=D|d=#324}}{{Hw|3|p=E|d=#324}} }} {{cardholder|b={{w}}|{{Hw|4|p=A|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=B|d=#324}}{{Hw|5|p=C|d=#324}} }}


'''white''' (1 clue + 4 plays + 3 empty = 8 turns)
[https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/240725-1000/?table=545167290&player=86691603&comments=84994396;&goto=14; Alice's view] | [https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/240725-1000/?table=545167290&player=87540408&comments=84994396;&goto=14; Donald's view] | 2024-08-02
|title2=What is the critical card?
|body2={{Hw|2}}


|title3=What is the critical move?
{{hGame
|body3=&ZeroWidthSpace;
|
:A) Alice clues Bob {{Hw|2|n=}} / {{Hw|2|c=}} hint: don't choose A
|
:B) Alice clues Donald {{Hw|3|n=}} / {{Hw|3|c=}}
|clueBox=
:C) Alice clues Emily {{Hw|4|n=}} / {{Hw|4|c=}}
|b={{hk}}{{hy|4|c=}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
:D) Alice discards {{Hw|4}}
|c={{hy|1}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
:E) Alice (mis)plays {{Hw|4}}
|d={{hk|3}}{{hy|5}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
:F) Alice discards slot 1
|e={{hy|3}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
:G) Alice (mis)plays slot 1
|float=left
}}
}}


==== What is the maximum score? ====
Example with a player (Bob) between the clue giver (Alice) and first response (Cathy):


{{infoBoxes |maxWidth=400 |state=collapsed
* Alice clues {{hy|4|c=}}
|title1=29
* Bob does something unrelated
|body1=
* Cathy plays {{hy|1}}
'''1. Group by colour:'''
* Donald plays {{hk|3}} as {{hy|2}}
:{{cardholder|b={{y}}|{{Hk|p=A|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=B|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=C|d=#324}}{{Hy|5|p=D|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=E|d=#324}} }}
* Emily now has {{hy|3}} marked in their slot 1
:{{cardholder|b={{r}}|{{Hk|p=A}}{{Hk|p=B}}{{Hr|4|p=C}}{{Hk|p=D}}{{Hk|p=E}} }} {{cardholder|b={{r}}|{{Hr|5|p=A}} }}
:{{cardholder|b={{w}}|{{Hw|p=A|d=#324|c=}}{{Hw|2|p=B|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=C|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=D|d=#324}}{{Hw|3|p=E|d=#324}} }} {{cardholder|b={{w}}|{{Hw|4|p=A|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=B|d=#324}}{{Hw|5|p=C|d=#324}} }}


'''2. Serialise:'''
{{pill|Q: Why isn't it a layered finesse? (i.e. must keep playing cards until they find {{hy|2}} ?)|#faa|#fcc}}
:{{cardholder|{{Hw|p=A|c=}}{{Hw|2|p=B}}{{Hr|4|p=C}}{{Hy|5|p=D}}{{Hw|3|p=E}} }} {{cardholder|{{Hw|4|p=A}}{{Hk|p=B}}{{Hw|5|p=C}}{{Hk|p=D}}{{Hk|p=E}} }} {{cardholder|{{Hr|5|p=A}} }}
:This question reveals a misunderstanding of bluffs. A better question would be:
:{{cardholder|{{HDeck|3|p=A}}{{HDeck|2|p=B}}{{HDeck|1|p=C}}{{HDeck|0|p=D}}{{HDeck|p=E}} }} {{cardholder|{{HDeck|p=A}}{{HDeck|p=B}}{{HDeck|p=C}}{{HDeck|p=D}} }}
{{pill|Q: Will anyone else try to play {{hy|2}} after {{hk|3}} plays as {{hy|2}} ?|#afa|#cfc}}


* There are not enough turns for Alice to clue {{Hw|2}} and play both {{Hw|4}} and {{Hr|5}}.
== Early Game Color Trash Bluff ==
* Can Alice shorten the critical path?


|title2=30
[https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/260909-0941/?table=912915495&player=84994396&comments=84994396; Alice's view] | 2026-09-09
|body2=
'''1. Group by colour:'''
:{{cardholder|b={{y}}|{{Hk|p=A|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=B|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=C|d=#324}}{{Hy|5|p=D|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=E|d=#324}} }}
:{{cardholder|b={{r}}|{{Hk|p=A}}{{Hk|p=B}}{{Hr|4|p=C}}{{Hk|p=D}}{{Hk|p=E}} }} {{cardholder|b={{r}}|{{Hr|5|p=A}} }}
:{{cardholder|b={{w}}|{{Hw|p=A|d=#324|c=}}{{Hw|2|p=B|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=C|d=#324}}{{Hw|3|p=D|d=#324}}{{Hw|4|p=E|d=#324}} }} {{cardholder|b={{w}}|{{Hk|p=A|d=#324}}{{Hk|p=B|d=#324}}{{Hw|5|p=C|d=#324}} }}


'''2. Serialise:'''
{{hPlay|2steps=
:{{cardholder|{{Hw|p=A|c=}}{{Hw|2|p=B}}{{Hr|4|p=C}}{{Hw|3|p=D}}{{Hw|4|p=E}} }} {{cardholder|{{Hr|5|p=A}}{{Hk|p=B}}{{Hw|5|p=C}}{{Hy|5|p=D}} }}
|note1=Alice to Emily: this card is red.
:{{cardholder|{{HDeck|3|p=A}}{{HDeck|2|p=B}}{{HDeck|1|p=C}}{{HDeck|0|p=D}}{{HDeck|p=E}} }} {{cardholder|{{HDeck|p=A}}{{HDeck|p=B}}{{HDeck|p=C}}{{HDeck|p=D}} }}


* Alice clues the unmarked {{Hw|4}} in Emily's hand (finesse) so that Alice has one card fewer to play and shortens the critical path.


}}
Bob knows Emily will bomb {{hm|1|{{r}}|c=}} as {{hr|2}} unless he responds.
|note2=Bob blind plays {{hy|1}} which does not connect to red, so a bluff has been revealed to every player.
 
 
Bob's blind play reveals that {{hm|1|{{r}}|c=}} is not playable, so Cathy understands that she must hold {{hm|1|n=}}.
 
 
Cathy also understands that for Emily to know {{hm|1|{{r}}|c=}} is trash, either Emily can see all {{hr|1}} (impossible) or Cathy holds {{hr|1|n=}}.
|note3=Cathy does not see {{hk|1}} so Cathy plays {{hm|1|n=}} before {{hr|1|n=}}.
 


{{infoBox |maxWidth= |state=collapsed |color=green
Emily knows that if {{hm|1|{{r}}|c=}} were any non-trash card, all blind plays must wait for Cathy's {{hm|1|n=}} or {{hr|1|n=}}.
|title=Solution
|body=
:A) Alice clues Bob {{Hw|2|n=}} / {{Hw|2|c=}} ❌ does not get the unmarked {{Hw|3}} / {{Hw|4}}
:B) Alice clues Donald {{Hw|3|n=}} / {{Hw|3|c=}} ❌ does not get the unmarked {{Hw|4}}
:C) Alice clues Emily {{Hw|4|n=}} / {{Hw|4|c=}} ❌ does not get the unmarked {{Hw|3}}
:D) Alice discards {{Hw|4}} ✅ finesses up to {{Hw|4}}
:E) Alice (mis)plays {{Hw|4}} ❌ interpretation = [Gamehelphanabi#Advanced positional misplay]
:F) Alice discards slot 1 ✅ Donald and Emily both see Alice could have clued instead {{Hw|4}}
:G) Alice (mis)plays slot 1 ❌ interpretation: [Gamehelphanabi#Advanced positional misplay]


Other possible options include [https://en.doc.boardgamearena.com/index.php?title=User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi/Examples#Advanced_Techniques trash push] if both of Emily's other cards are the same rank (not 4) or colour (not white) e.g {{Hr|1}}{{Hy|1}} then Alice could clue {{Hr|1|n=}}{{Hy|1|n=}} to Emily.
So Emily will discard {{hm|1|{{r}}|c=}} as trash.
|{{hGame
|{{hTable|m=|k=}}
|clues=5
|b={{hy|1}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
|c={{hk}}{{hm|1|n=}}{{hk}}{{hr|1|n=}}
|d={{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
|e={{hb|3}}{{hk|5|n=}}{{hm|1|{{r}}|c=}}{{hb|1}}
}}
|{{hGame
|{{hTable||1|m=|k=}}
|clues=5
|b={{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
|c={{hk}}{{hm|1|n=}}{{hk}}{{hr|1|n=}}
|d={{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
|e={{hb|3}}{{hk|5|n=}}{{hm|1|{{r}}|c=}}{{hb|1}}
}}
}}
|{{hGame
|{{hTable||1|m=1|k=}}
|clues=5
|b={{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
|c={{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hr|1|n=}}
|d={{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
|e={{hb|3}}{{hk|5|n=}}{{hm|1|{{r}}|c=}}{{hb|1}}
}}
|{{hGame
|{{hTable||1|m=1|k=}}
|clues=4
|b={{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
|c={{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hr|1|n=}}
|d={{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}{{hk}}
|e={{hb|3}}{{hk|5|n=}}{{hm|1|{{r}}|c=|n=}}{{hb|1|n=}}
}}
}}
{{text|[[User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi/Examples_page_2|Page 2 >]]|s=2}}

Latest revision as of 17:18, 14 September 2026

⚠ Work in progress

MediaWiki-note-icons.png​Extra examples from Sammy's Hanabi page

Interpretation

Extraction

Forum post | 2026-07-02

  • Tyrion to Kaznaka: these 2 cards are green.
33cards in the deckred1yellow2green2blue4white3multicolor1black powder
​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens1 clue tokens2 clue tokens3 clue tokens4 clue tokens5 clue tokens6 clue tokens7 clue tokens8 clue tokens
Discardedr34yg34bwm
black powder5,with a black powder 5clue,green5,with a green 5clue,black powder2,with a black powder 2clue,yellow2,with a yellow 2clue,MrGrogu 🡲multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,white4,with a white 4clue,Kaznaka 🡲multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,blue3,with a blue 3clue,red5,with a red 5clue,Feen 🡲white3,with a white 3clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,black powder2,with a black powder 2clue,green1,with a green 1clue,Tyrion 🡲blue1,with a blue 1clue,red1,with a red 1clue,green3,with a green 3clue,red1,with a red 1clue,nishikawa 🡲

The interpretation of a 4 clue is not clear to all players

green3,with a green 3clue, can play on its own given enough context (negative multi is enough here), so even after green3,with a green 3clue, plays, a 4 clue on its own will lead to a save misinterpretation if the receiver does not have one of the following context:

a) all critical 4 (red4,with a red 4clue, and green4,with a green 4clue,) are visible
b) negative critical colour (r and g)
c) negative critical chop (i.e. while red4,with a red 4clue, and green4,with a green 4clue, were discarded, the chop card was not saved)

Notice how:

a) depends on information in other hands which is hidden from at least one player.
b) and c) depend on information in the same hand which is available to all players.

If all the critical 4s were playable, the receiver will play their rightmost 4 as red4,with a red 4clue, / green4,with a green 4clue, and after white4,with a white 4clue, plays, they understand the 4 clue was not a save and in fact a left-focused play clue and go on to play their left 4 too as a bonus.

The problem in this game is that red4,with a red 4clue, is not playable so the team cannot wait to give a clear play clue due to multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue, on chop.

So every player is unsure if an extra clue is required to avoid multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue, discard because they could hold red4,with a red 4clue, which would make (white4,with a white 4clue, and) green4,with a green 4clue, play.

The interpretation of a green clue is clear to all players

Since a 4 clue on its own may or may not be enough to play green4,with a green 4clue,, colour takes away the save interpretation entirely and simplifies the thought process of every player.

Every player understands that MrGrogu must prevent multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue, bombing as green4,with a green 4clue, (or multicolour2,with a multicolour 2clue,) now. If MrGrogu decided a fix clue is required but discards assuming Kaznaka will save multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,blue3,with a blue 3clue,red5,with a red 5clue, Feen 🡲 , this would be a blunder since MrGrogu's hand (e.g. black powder,with a black powder clue,red3,with a red 3clue,white5,with a white 5clue,black powder1,with a black powder 1clue, MrGrogu 🡲) could require Feen to begin a triple save and Kaznaka would be free to bomb multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue,.

From MrGrogu pov

Either must play for multicolour2,with a multicolour 2clue, multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue, multicolour4,with a multicolour 4clue, or give a fix for green4,with a green 4clue, now.

Context of g (or w) clue:

  1. Fix multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,white4,with a white 4clue, Kaznaka 🡲 = 0 blind plays
  2. Play multicolour2,with a multicolour 2clue, multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue, multicolour4,with a multicolour 4clue, = 3 blind plays

Convention is the fewest number of blind plays from your hand is the correct interpretation.

Imagine instead of multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,white4,with a white 4clue, Kaznaka 🡲 we had multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,white4,with a white 4clue, Kaznaka 🡲.

Context of y clue:

  1. Play yellow3,with a yellow 3clue, + fix multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,white4,with a white 4clue, Kaznaka 🡲 = 1 blind play
  2. Play multicolour2,with a multicolour 2clue, multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue, multicolour4,with a multicolour 4clue, = 3 blind plays

We all agree that a y clue clearly demands a blind play.

Hypothetically if MrGrogu played a yellow3,with a yellow 3clue,, what would MrGrogu do next round? Go on to play for multicolour2,with a multicolour 2clue, multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue, multicolour4,with a multicolour 4clue, or give a fix multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,white4,with a white 4clue, Kaznaka 🡲?

Why should the question of giving a fix on g+4 be any different to y+4?

For a multicolour2,with a multicolour 2clue, multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue, multicolour4,with a multicolour 4clue, finesse, the best clue choices would be multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,white4,with a white 4clue, Kaznaka 🡲 / multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,white4,with a white 4clue, Kaznaka 🡲 / multicolour5,with a multicolour 5clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,white4,with a white 4clue, Kaznaka 🡲.

The timing of the clue is good

From the clue-giver's point of view:

  • apart from MrGrogu's hand every card they see is either trash or 5
  • any of their cards could be non-trash, so it makes sense to give a clue and encourage all non-busy players to discard.

Because the timing of g clue (rather than discard) is otherwise unnecessary as has been pointed out, giving the clue now communicates to all other players more subtle information:

  • there are no non-trash cards that we can't guarantee marking
  • my hand (also mostly trash as it turns out) is more important than the cards I see

The benefits if we agree that MrGrogu must give a fix clue:

  • their playable black powder5,with a black powder 5clue, remains in finesse position while other hands draw new potential bluff targets
  • the discard of the only other useful card in any hand (black powder2,with a black powder 2clue,) is delayed

Prompt + Layered finesse

Forum post | 2026-01-01

  • Alice to Cathy: these 2 cards are yellow.

cards in the deckredyellowgreenbluewhitemulticolorblack powder white1,with a white 1clue,yellow2,with a yellow 2clue,red4,with a red 4clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue, Bob 🡲 green4,with a green 4clue,blue4,with a blue 4clue,yellow3,with a yellow 3clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue, Cathy 🡲

  • Bob plays yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,.
  • Cathy sees yellow2,with a yellow 2clue, is layered behind a playable white1,with a white 1clue,, so she could hold yellow3,with a yellow 3clue,.
  • Cathy discards to see if Bob tries to play yellow2,with a yellow 2clue, next turn.

cards in the deckredyellow1greenbluewhitemulticolorblack powder white2,with a white 2clue,white1,with a white 1clue,yellow2,with a yellow 2clue,red4,with a red 4clue, Bob 🡲 white3,with a white 3clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow3,with a yellow 3clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue, Cathy 🡲

Alice clues white
​
  • Alice to Cathy: this card is white.

cards in the deckredyellow1greenbluewhitemulticolorblack powder white2,with a white 2clue,white1,with a white 1clue,yellow2,with a yellow 2clue,red4,with a red 4clue, Bob 🡲 white3,with a white 3clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow3,with a yellow 3clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue, Cathy 🡲

  • Bob acknowledges the white clue and continues to look for yellow2,with a yellow 2clue, because white1,with a white 1clue, can be inside the yellow2,with a yellow 2clue, layered finesse.
  • Cathy sees a playable white2,with a white 2clue, in Bob's hand, so she could hold white3,with a white 3clue,.
  • Bob blind plays his 2nd slot for yellow2,with a yellow 2clue, and white1,with a white 1clue, successfully plays.
  • Cathy and Alice discard.
  • Bob blind plays his 3rd slot yellow2,with a yellow 2clue,.
  • Cathy plays yellow3,with a yellow 3clue,.
After the first layered finesse is resolved
​

cards in the deckredyellow3greenbluewhite1multicolorblack powder green1,with a green 1clue,blue4,with a blue 4clue,white2,with a white 2clue,red4,with a red 4clue, Bob 🡲 red2,with a red 2clue,white3,with a white 3clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue, Cathy 🡲

Can Alice bluff here?
​

cards in the deckredyellow3greenbluewhite1multicolorblack powder green1,with a green 1clue,blue4,with a blue 4clue,white2,with a white 2clue,red4,with a red 4clue, Bob 🡲 red2,with a red 2clue,white3,with a white 3clue,green4,with a green 4clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue, Cathy 🡲

  • Since Bob knows the white clue is a layered finesse, he must keep looking for white2,with a white 2clue, before he can start looking for red1,with a red 1clue, because red1,with a red 1clue, can be inside the white2,with a white 2clue, layered finesse:

black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red1,with a red 1clue,white2,with a white 2clue, Bob 🡲

  • So Alice cannot bluff a player who is already in the middle of responding to a finesse if it can be layered.
red1,with a red 1clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,white2,with a white 2clue,black powder,with a black powder clue, Bob 🡲
  • Bob knows the white clue cannot be a bluff because Cathy would not discard unless she sees a playable white2,with a white 2clue, in Bob's hand.
  • So Bob knows he is promised white2,with a white 2clue, and keeps playing each slot from his now 3rd slot left to right until his white2,with a white 2clue, is played.

Finesse + Promise Bluff

Alice's view | Donald's view | 2024-08-02

card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,Alice 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Bob 🡲yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Cathy 🡲black powder3,with a black powder 3clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Donald 🡲yellow3,with a yellow 3clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Emily 🡲

Example with a player (Bob) between the clue giver (Alice) and first response (Cathy):

  • Alice clues yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,
  • Bob does something unrelated
  • Cathy plays yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,
  • Donald plays black powder3,with a black powder 3clue, as yellow2,with a yellow 2clue,
  • Emily now has yellow3,with a yellow 3clue, marked in their slot 1

Q: Why isn't it a layered finesse? (i.e. must keep playing cards until they find yellow2,with a yellow 2clue, ?)

This question reveals a misunderstanding of bluffs. A better question would be:

Q: Will anyone else try to play yellow2,with a yellow 2clue, after black powder3,with a black powder 3clue, plays as yellow2,with a yellow 2clue, ?

Early Game Color Trash Bluff

Alice's view | 2026-09-09

cards in the deckredyellowgreenbluewhitemulticolorblack powder
​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens1 clue tokens2 clue tokens3 clue tokens4 clue tokens5 clue tokens6 clue tokens7 clue tokens8 clue tokens
Discardedrygbwm
card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,Alice 🡲yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Bob 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red1,with a red 1clue,Cathy 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Donald 🡲blue3,with a blue 3clue,black powder5,with a black powder 5clue,multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue,blue1,with a blue 1clue,Emily 🡲
Alice to Emily: this card is red.


Bob knows Emily will bomb multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue, as red2,with a red 2clue, unless he responds.
cards in the deckredyellow1greenbluewhitemulticolorblack powder
​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens1 clue tokens2 clue tokens3 clue tokens4 clue tokens5 clue tokens6 clue tokens7 clue tokens8 clue tokens
Discardedrygbwm
card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,Alice 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Bob 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red1,with a red 1clue,Cathy 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Donald 🡲blue3,with a blue 3clue,black powder5,with a black powder 5clue,multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue,blue1,with a blue 1clue,Emily 🡲
Bob blind plays yellow1,with a yellow 1clue, which does not connect to red, so a bluff has been revealed to every player.


Bob's blind play reveals that multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue, is not playable, so Cathy understands that she must hold multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue,.


Cathy also understands that for Emily to know multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue, is trash, either Emily can see all red1,with a red 1clue, (impossible) or Cathy holds red1,with a red 1clue,.
cards in the deckredyellow1greenbluewhitemulticolor1black powder
​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens1 clue tokens2 clue tokens3 clue tokens4 clue tokens5 clue tokens6 clue tokens7 clue tokens8 clue tokens
Discardedrygbwm
card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,Alice 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Bob 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red1,with a red 1clue,Cathy 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Donald 🡲blue3,with a blue 3clue,black powder5,with a black powder 5clue,multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue,blue1,with a blue 1clue,Emily 🡲
Cathy does not see black powder1,with a black powder 1clue, so Cathy plays multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue, before red1,with a red 1clue,.


Emily knows that if multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue, were any non-trash card, all blind plays must wait for Cathy's multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue, or red1,with a red 1clue,.

So Emily will discard multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue, as trash.
cards in the deckredyellow1greenbluewhitemulticolor1black powder
​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens​ clue tokens1 clue tokens2 clue tokens3 clue tokens4 clue tokens5 clue tokens6 clue tokens7 clue tokens8 clue tokens
Discardedrygbwm
card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,Alice 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Bob 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red1,with a red 1clue,Cathy 🡲black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,Donald 🡲blue3,with a blue 3clue,black powder5,with a black powder 5clue,multicolour1,with a multicolour 1clue,blue1,with a blue 1clue,Emily 🡲
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