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{{pill|⚠ Work in progress|#fa8|#fc8|s=1.2}} | |||
Extra examples from Sammy's '''[[User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi|Hanabi page]]''' | Extra examples from Sammy's '''[[User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi|Hanabi page]]''' | ||
{{ | == <div style="background:linear-gradient(45deg,#aff,#cfd,#fff0 40rem);padding:.25rem .5rem;border-top-left-radius:.5rem;">Interpretation</div> == | ||
=== Prompt + Layered finesse === | |||
2026-01-01 [https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46730 Forum post] | |||
* Alice to Cathy: these 2 cards are yellow. | |||
{{Hr}} {{Hy}} {{Hg}} {{Hb}} {{Hw}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hw|1}}{{Hy|2}}{{Hr|4}}{{Hy|1|n=}} |Bob 🡲}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hg|4}}{{Hb|4}}{{Hy|3|c=}}{{Hy|5|c=}} |Cathy 🡲}} | |||
* Bob plays {{Hy|1|n=}}. | |||
* Cathy sees {{Hy|2}} is layered behind a playable {{Hw|1}}, so she could hold {{Hy|3}}. | |||
* Cathy discards to see if Bob tries to play {{Hy|2}} next turn. | |||
{{Hr}} {{Hy|1}} {{Hg}} {{Hb}} {{Hw}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hw|2}}{{Hw|1}}{{Hy|2}}{{Hr|4}} |Bob 🡲}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hw|3}}{{Hg|4}}{{Hy|3|c=}}{{Hy|5|c=}} |Cathy 🡲}} | |||
{{infoBox |state=collapsed |color=#088 | |||
|title=Alice clues white | |||
|body=​ | |||
* Alice to Cathy: this card is white. | |||
{{Hr}} {{Hy|1}} {{Hg}} {{Hb}} {{Hw}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hw|2}}{{Hw|1}}{{Hy|2}}{{Hr|4}} |Bob 🡲}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hw|3|c=}}{{Hg|4}}{{Hy|3|c=}}{{Hy|5|c=}} |Cathy 🡲}} | |||
* Bob acknowledges the white clue and continues to look for {{Hy|2}} because {{Hw|1}} '''can be inside the {{Hy|2}} layered finesse'''. | |||
* Cathy sees a playable {{Hw|2}} in Bob's hand, so she could hold {{Hw|3}}. | |||
}} | |||
* Bob blind plays his 2nd slot for {{Hy|2}} and {{Hw|1}} successfully plays. | |||
* Cathy and Alice discard. | |||
* Bob blind plays his 3rd slot {{Hy|2}}. | |||
* Cathy plays {{Hy|3|c=}}. | |||
{{infoBox |state=collapsed |color=#088 | |||
|title=After the first layered finesse is resolved | |||
|body=​ | |||
{{Hr}} {{Hy|3}} {{Hg}} {{Hb}} {{Hw|1}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hg|1}}{{Hb|4}}{{Hw|2}}{{Hr|4}} |Bob 🡲}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hr|2}}{{Hw|3|c=}}{{Hg|4}}{{Hy|5|c=}} |Cathy 🡲}} | |||
{{infoBox |state=collapsed |color=rebeccapurple | |||
|title=Can Alice bluff here? | |||
|body=​ | |||
{{Hr}} {{Hy|3}} {{Hg}} {{Hb}} {{Hw|1}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hg|1}}{{Hb|4}}{{Hw|2}}{{Hr|4}} |Bob 🡲}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hr|2|c=}}{{Hw|3|c=}}{{Hg|4}}{{Hy|5|c=}} |Cathy 🡲}} | |||
=== 2025-07-05 | * Since Bob knows the white clue is a layered finesse, he must keep looking for {{Hw|2}} before he can start looking for {{Hr|1}} because {{Hr|1}} '''can be inside the {{Hw|2}} layered finesse''': | ||
{{cardholder|{{Hk}}{{Hk}}{{Hr|1}}{{Hw|2}} |Bob 🡲}} | |||
* So Alice cannot bluff a player who is already in the middle of responding to a finesse if it can be layered. | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hr|1}}{{Hk}}{{Hw|2}}{{Hk}} |Bob 🡲}} | |||
}} | |||
* Bob knows the white clue cannot be a bluff because Cathy would not discard unless she sees a playable {{Hw|2}} in Bob's hand. | |||
* So Bob knows he is promised {{Hw|2}} and keeps playing each slot from his now '''3rd slot''' left to right until his {{Hw|2}} is played. | |||
}} | |||
=== Finesse + Promise Bluff === | |||
2024-08-02 | |||
Example with gap between clue giver and first response: | |||
<div style="display:flex;gap:1rem;"><div> | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hk}}{{Hy|4|c=}}{{Hk}}{{Hk}} |Bob 🡲}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hy|1}}{{Hk}}{{Hk}}{{Hk}} |Cathy 🡲}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hk|3}}{{Hy|5}}{{Hk}}{{Hk}} |Donald 🡲}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hy|3}}{{Hk}}{{Hk}}{{Hk}} |Emily 🡲}} | |||
</div><div> | |||
* Alice clues {{Hy|4|c=}} | |||
* Bob does something unrelated | |||
* Cathy plays {{Hy|1}} | |||
* Donald plays {{Hk|3}} as {{Hy|2}} | |||
* Emily now has {{Hy|3}} marked in their slot 1 | |||
{{pill|Why isn't it layered?|#fa8|#fc8}} 🡆 Wrong question | |||
Should be thinking: {{pill|can it be a bluff?|#aff|#cfd}} / {{pill|do I need to keep playing?|#aff|#cfd}} | |||
[https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/240725-1000/?table=545167290&player=86691603&comments=84994396; Alice's view] | |||
[https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/240725-1000/?table=545167290&player=87540408&comments=84994396; Donald's view] | |||
</div></div> | |||
=== Trash Bluff === | |||
2025-07-05 | |||
<div style="display:flex;gap:1rem;"><div> | <div style="display:flex;gap:1rem;"><div> | ||
| Line 17: | Line 109: | ||
{{cardholder|{{Hy|1}}{{Hm|5|n=}}{{Hw|5|n=}}{{Hy|3|c=}} |Donald 🡲}} | {{cardholder|{{Hy|1}}{{Hm|5|n=}}{{Hw|5|n=}}{{Hy|3|c=}} |Donald 🡲}} | ||
</div><div> | </div><div> | ||
{{hr|2}} {{hy|1}} {{hg|1}} {{hb|2}} {{hw|2}} {{hm|2}} {{hk|3}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{Hw|2|n=}} {{Hr|2|n=}} |Alice}} are known trash | |||
}} | |||
{{cardholder|{{hy|3|c=}} |Donald}} is known not trash | |||
[https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/250703-0920/?table=697080440&player=84994396&comments=84994396&goto=37 Alice's view] | |||
[https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/250703-0920/?table=697080440&player=85786974&comments=84994396&goto=37 Donald's view] | |||
</div><div> | |||
{{infoBox |color=#fdd |titleColor=#500 | {{infoBox |color=#fdd |titleColor=#500 | ||
|title=Discarded | |title=Discarded | ||
|body={{hr|4}} {{hy|3}} {{hg|4}} {{hb|3}} {{hb|1}} {{hw|1}} {{hk|4}} {{hk|2}} | |body={{hr|4}} {{hy|3}} {{hg|4}} {{hb|3}} {{hb|1}} {{hw|1}}<br>{{hk|4}} {{hk|2}} | ||
}} | }} | ||
</div></div> | </div></div> | ||
=== | == <div style="background:linear-gradient(45deg,#aff,#cfd,#fff0 40rem);padding:.25rem .5rem;border-top-left-radius:.5rem;">Endgame</div> == | ||
: {{HDeck|3}} {{Hr|3}} {{Hy|4}} {{Hg|5}} {{Hb|5}} {{Hw|1}} {{Hclue|3}} | : {{HDeck|3}} {{Hr|3}} {{Hy|4}} {{Hg|5}} {{Hb|5}} {{Hw|1}} {{Hclue|3}} | ||
| Line 70: | Line 148: | ||
|title3=What is the critical move? | |title3=What is the critical move? | ||
|body3=​ | |body3=​ | ||
:A) Alice clues Bob {{Hw|2|n=}} / {{Hw|2|c=}} hint: don't choose A | :A) Alice clues Bob {{Hw|2|n=}} / {{Hw|2|c=}} | ||
::hint: don't choose A | |||
:B) Alice clues Donald {{Hw|3|n=}} / {{Hw|3|c=}} | :B) Alice clues Donald {{Hw|3|n=}} / {{Hw|3|c=}} | ||
:C) Alice clues Emily {{Hw|4|n=}} / {{Hw|4|c=}} | :C) Alice clues Emily {{Hw|4|n=}} / {{Hw|4|c=}} | ||
| Line 113: | Line 192: | ||
{{infoBox |maxWidth= |state=collapsed |color=green | {{infoBox |maxWidth= |state=collapsed |color=green | ||
|title=Solution | |title=Solution | ||
|body= | |body=​ | ||
:A) Alice clues Bob {{Hw|2|n=}} / {{Hw|2|c=}} ❌ does not get the unmarked {{Hw|3}} / {{Hw|4}} | :A) Alice clues Bob {{Hw|2|n=}} / {{Hw|2|c=}} ❌ does not get the unmarked {{Hw|3}} / {{Hw|4}} | ||
:B) Alice clues Donald {{Hw|3|n=}} / {{Hw|3|c=}} ❌ does not get the unmarked {{Hw|4}} | :B) Alice clues Donald {{Hw|3|n=}} / {{Hw|3|c=}} ❌ does not get the unmarked {{Hw|4}} | ||
:C) Alice clues Emily {{Hw|4|n=}} / {{Hw|4|c=}} ❌ does not get the unmarked {{Hw|3}} | :C) Alice clues Emily {{Hw|4|n=}} / {{Hw|4|c=}} ❌ does not get the unmarked {{Hw|3}} | ||
:D) Alice discards {{Hw|4}} ✅ finesses up to {{Hw|4}} | :D) Alice discards {{Hw|4}} ✅ finesses up to {{Hw|4}} | ||
:E) Alice (mis)plays {{Hw|4}} ❌ interpretation = [Gamehelphanabi#Advanced positional misplay] | :E) Alice (mis)plays {{Hw|4}} ❌ interpretation = [[Gamehelphanabi#Advanced|positional misplay]] | ||
:F) Alice discards slot 1 ✅ Donald and Emily both see Alice could have clued instead {{Hw|4}} | :F) Alice discards slot 1 ✅ Donald and Emily both see Alice could have clued instead {{Hw|4}} | ||
:G) Alice (mis)plays slot 1 ❌ interpretation | :G) Alice (mis)plays slot 1 ❌ interpretation = [[Gamehelphanabi#Advanced|positional misplay]] | ||
Other possible options include [https://en.doc.boardgamearena.com/index.php?title=User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi/Examples#Advanced_Techniques trash push] if both of Emily's other cards are the same rank (not 4) or colour (not white) e.g {{Hr|1}}{{Hy|1}} then Alice could clue {{Hr|1|n=}}{{Hy|1|n=}} to Emily. | Other possible options include [https://en.doc.boardgamearena.com/index.php?title=User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi/Examples#Advanced_Techniques trash push] if both of Emily's other cards are the same rank (not 4) or colour (not white) e.g {{Hr|1}}{{Hy|1}} then Alice could clue {{Hr|1|n=}}{{Hy|1|n=}} to Emily's hand {{cardholder|{{Hw|4}}{{Hr|1|n=}}{{Hy|1|n=}}{{Hw|3|n=|c=}} |Emily 🡲}} | ||
. | |||
}} | }} | ||
Latest revision as of 21:17, 20 January 2026
⚠ Work in progress
Extra examples from Sammy's Hanabi page
Interpretation
Prompt + Layered finesse
2026-01-01 Forum post
- Alice to Cathy: these 2 cards are yellow.
red yellow green blue white white1yellow2red4yellow1,with a 1clue, Bob 🡲 green4blue4yellow3,with a yellowclue,yellow5,with a yellowclue, Cathy 🡲
- Bob plays yellow1,with a 1clue,.
- Cathy sees yellow2 is layered behind a playable white1, so she could hold yellow3.
- Cathy discards to see if Bob tries to play yellow2 next turn.
red yellow1 green blue white white2white1yellow2red4 Bob 🡲 white3green4yellow3,with a yellowclue,yellow5,with a yellowclue, Cathy 🡲
- Alice to Cathy: this card is white.
red yellow1 green blue white white2white1yellow2red4 Bob 🡲 white3,with a whiteclue,green4yellow3,with a yellowclue,yellow5,with a yellowclue, Cathy 🡲
- Bob acknowledges the white clue and continues to look for yellow2 because white1 can be inside the yellow2 layered finesse.
- Cathy sees a playable white2 in Bob's hand, so she could hold white3.
- Bob blind plays his 2nd slot for yellow2 and white1 successfully plays.
- Cathy and Alice discard.
- Bob blind plays his 3rd slot yellow2.
- Cathy plays yellow3,with a yellowclue,.
red yellow3 green blue white1 green1blue4white2red4 Bob 🡲 red2white3,with a whiteclue,green4yellow5,with a yellowclue, Cathy 🡲
red yellow3 green blue white1 green1blue4white2red4 Bob 🡲 red2,with a redclue,white3,with a whiteclue,green4yellow5,with a yellowclue, Cathy 🡲
- Since Bob knows the white clue is a layered finesse, he must keep looking for white2 before he can start looking for red1 because red1 can be inside the white2 layered finesse:
black powderblack powderred1white2 Bob 🡲
- So Alice cannot bluff a player who is already in the middle of responding to a finesse if it can be layered.
- Bob knows the white clue cannot be a bluff because Cathy would not discard unless she sees a playable white2 in Bob's hand.
- So Bob knows he is promised white2 and keeps playing each slot from his now 3rd slot left to right until his white2 is played.
Finesse + Promise Bluff
2024-08-02
Example with gap between clue giver and first response:
black powderyellow4,with a yellowclue,black powderblack powder Bob 🡲
yellow1black powderblack powderblack powder Cathy 🡲
black powder3yellow5black powderblack powder Donald 🡲
yellow3black powderblack powderblack powder Emily 🡲
- Alice clues yellow4,with a yellowclue,
- Bob does something unrelated
- Cathy plays yellow1
- Donald plays black powder3 as yellow2
- Emily now has yellow3 marked in their slot 1
Why isn't it layered? 🡆 Wrong question
Should be thinking: can it be a bluff? / do I need to keep playing?
Trash Bluff
2025-07-05
red5white2,with a 2clue,red2,with a 2clue,yellow4 Alice 🡲
yellow2green1blue2multicolour4,with a multicolour4clue, Bob 🡲
multicolour1red4blue4black powder2,with a 2clue, Cathy 🡲
yellow1multicolour5,with a 5clue,white5,with a 5clue,yellow3,with a yellowclue, Donald 🡲
red2 yellow1 green1 blue2 white2 multicolour2 black powder3
white2,with a 2clue, red2,with a 2clue, Alice are known trash
yellow3,with a yellowclue, Donald is known not trash
black powder4 black powder2
Endgame
- cards in the deck3 red3 yellow4 green5 blue5 white1 3clue tokens
card backcard backcard back4,with a 4clue,card back5,with a 5clue, Alice 🡲 white2black powderblack powderblack powder Bob 🡲 black powderblack powderred4,with a red4clue,white5,with a white5clue, Cathy 🡲 white3black powderblack powderyellow5,with a yellow5clue, Donald 🡲 white4black powderblack powderwhite3,with a white3clue, Emily 🡲
- black powderblack powderblack powderyellow5black powder
- black powderblack powderred4black powderblack powder red5
- white,with a whiteclue,white2black powderblack powderwhite3 white4black powderwhite5
- A) Alice clues Bob white2,with a 2clue, / white2,with a whiteclue,
- hint: don't choose A
- B) Alice clues Donald white3,with a 3clue, / white3,with a whiteclue,
- C) Alice clues Emily white4,with a 4clue, / white4,with a whiteclue,
- D) Alice discards white4
- E) Alice (mis)plays white4
- F) Alice discards slot 1
- G) Alice (mis)plays slot 1
What is the maximum score?
- black powderblack powderblack powderyellow5black powder
- black powderblack powderred4black powderblack powder red5
- white,with a whiteclue,white2black powderblack powderwhite3 white4black powderwhite5
2. Serialise:
- white,with a whiteclue,white2red4yellow5white3 white4black powderwhite5black powderblack powder red5
- cards in the deck3cards in the deck2cards in the deck1cards in the deck0cards in the deck cards in the deckcards in the deckcards in the deckcards in the deck
- There are not enough turns for Alice to clue white2 and play both white4 and red5.
- Can Alice shorten the critical path?
- black powderblack powderblack powderyellow5black powder
- black powderblack powderred4black powderblack powder red5
- white,with a whiteclue,white2black powderwhite3white4 black powderblack powderwhite5
2. Serialise:
- white,with a whiteclue,white2red4white3white4 red5black powderwhite5yellow5
- cards in the deck3cards in the deck2cards in the deck1cards in the deck0cards in the deck cards in the deckcards in the deckcards in the deckcards in the deck
- Alice clues the unmarked white4 in Emily's hand (finesse) so that Alice has one card fewer to play and shortens the critical path.
- A) Alice clues Bob white2,with a 2clue, / white2,with a whiteclue, ❌ does not get the unmarked white3 / white4
- B) Alice clues Donald white3,with a 3clue, / white3,with a whiteclue, ❌ does not get the unmarked white4
- C) Alice clues Emily white4,with a 4clue, / white4,with a whiteclue, ❌ does not get the unmarked white3
- D) Alice discards white4 ✅ finesses up to white4
- E) Alice (mis)plays white4 ❌ interpretation = positional misplay
- F) Alice discards slot 1 ✅ Donald and Emily both see Alice could have clued instead white4
- G) Alice (mis)plays slot 1 ❌ interpretation = positional misplay
Other possible options include trash push if both of Emily's other cards are the same rank (not 4) or colour (not white) e.g red1yellow1 then Alice could clue red1,with a 1clue,yellow1,with a 1clue, to Emily's hand white4red1,with a 1clue,yellow1,with a 1clue,white3,with a white3clue, Emily 🡲
.