User:Sammy McSam/Hanabi/Examples page 2: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 23:23, 3 October 2026

⚠ Work in progress

This is page 2 of Hanabi Examples

High trust deduction or blunder?

Alice's view | Bob's view | 2026-10-02

red1yellowgreen1bluewhite1multicolorblack powder

clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens4 clue tokens

Discardedy13

multicolour4,with a multicolour 4clue,green3,with a green 3clue,green4,with a green 4clue,red3,with a red 3clue,Alice 🡲red4,with a red 4clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue,red2,with a red 2clue,Bob 🡲green1,with a green 1clue,black powder4,with a black powder 4clue,green3,with a green 3clue,green2,with a green 2clue,Cathy 🡲multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue,red1,with a red 1clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,blue2,with a blue 2clue,Donald 🡲green5,with a green 5clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,white4,with a white 4clue,white5,with a white 5clue,Emily 🡲

Alice to Cathy: this card is a 3.

Alice skips Bob with the green3,with a green 3clue, fix to encourage Bob's first discard of the game.

Since there is high trust, the unnecessary loss of yellow1,with a yellow 1clue, earlier means Bob holds at least one other copy of yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,.

red1yellowgreen1bluewhite1multicolorblack powder

clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens5 clue tokens

Discardedr2y13

multicolour4,with a multicolour 4clue,green3,with a green 3clue,green4,with a green 4clue,red3,with a red 3clue,Alice 🡲red3,with a red 3clue,red4,with a red 4clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue,Bob 🡲green1,with a green 1clue,black powder4,with a black powder 4clue,green3,with a green 3clue,green2,with a green 2clue,Cathy 🡲multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue,red1,with a red 1clue,yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,blue2,with a blue 2clue,Donald 🡲green5,with a green 5clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,white4,with a white 4clue,white5,with a white 5clue,Emily 🡲

Bob discards red2,with a red 2clue,. Again since there is high trust, Bob knows they must hold the other copy of red2,with a red 2clue, as well.

red1yellowgreen2bluewhite1multicolorblack powder

clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens7 clue tokens

Discardedr2y14w43

multicolour4,with a multicolour 4clue,green3,with a green 3clue,green4,with a green 4clue,red3,with a red 3clue,Alice 🡲red3,with a red 3clue,red4,with a red 4clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue,Bob 🡲red1,with a red 1clue,green1,with a green 1clue,black powder4,with a black powder 4clue,green3,with a green 3clue,Cathy 🡲multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue,multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue,red1,with a red 1clue,blue2,with a blue 2clue,Donald 🡲yellow3,with a yellow 3clue,green5,with a green 5clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,white5,with a white 5clue,Emily 🡲

Cathy plays green2,with a green 2clue,.

Donald discards yellow4,with a yellow 4clue,.

Emily discards white4,with a white 4clue,.

red1yellowgreen2bluewhite1multicolorblack powder

clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens6 clue tokens

Discardedr2y14w43

multicolour4,with a multicolour 4clue,green3,with a green 3clue,green4,with a green 4clue,red3,with a red 3clue,Alice 🡲red3,with a red 3clue,red4,with a red 4clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue,Bob 🡲red1,with a red 1clue,green1,with a green 1clue,black powder4,with a black powder 4clue,green3,with a green 3clue,Cathy 🡲multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue,multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue,red1,with a red 1clue,blue2,with a blue 2clue,Donald 🡲yellow3,with a yellow 3clue,green5,with a green 5clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,white5,with a white 5clue,Emily 🡲

Alice to Emily: these three cards are 5s.

Alice saves green5,with a green 5clue, because they think Bob knows to play yellow1,with a yellow 1clue, and red2,with a red 2clue,, Cathy will play green3,with a green 3clue, and Donald has no non-trash cards that can't be saved.

Note this encourages:

play of green3,with a green 3clue, but with black powder4,with a black powder 4clue, on chop
discard of trash red1,with a red 1clue, and future discard of duplicate multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue,
discard of yellow3,with a yellow 3clue, and potentially locking Emily's hand

If Alice instead discards, Cathy could save green5,with a green 5clue, and Emily may gain something to clue in Alice's hand, turning all

into

.

red1yellowgreen2bluewhite1multicolorblack powder

clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens clue tokens6 clue tokens

Discardedr2y14w43

multicolour4,with a multicolour 4clue,green3,with a green 3clue,green4,with a green 4clue,red3,with a red 3clue,Alice 🡲red3,with a red 3clue,red4,with a red 4clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue,Bob 🡲red1,with a red 1clue,green1,with a green 1clue,black powder4,with a black powder 4clue,green3,with a green 3clue,Cathy 🡲multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue,multicolour3,with a multicolour 3clue,red1,with a red 1clue,blue2,with a blue 2clue,Donald 🡲yellow3,with a yellow 3clue,green5,with a green 5clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,white5,with a white 5clue,Emily 🡲

However does Bob really know if any of their slots can be safely played?

Assuming yellow1,with a yellow 1clue, and red2,with a red 2clue, were in Bob's starting hand, the possible combinations were:

red2,with a red 2clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red2,with a red 2clue, Bob 🡲 red2,with a red 2clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue, Bob 🡲 black powder,with a black powder clue,red2,with a red 2clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue, Bob 🡲

yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red2,with a red 2clue, Bob 🡲 yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red2,with a red 2clue,red2,with a red 2clue, Bob 🡲 black powder,with a black powder clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue,red2,with a red 2clue, Bob 🡲

where black powder,with a black powder clue, is any card, for example an unplayable multicolour2,with a multicolour 2clue,.

Can Bob narrow down the possibilities?

If there were just one more piece of contextual information to reduce the possible slot positions, such as a nice multicolour2,with a multicolour 2clue, bluff target that went unused while yellow1,with a yellow 1clue, / red2,with a red 2clue, was in slot 1 of the starting hand, then the only possibilities that remain would be: black powder,with a black powder clue,red2,with a red 2clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue, Bob 🡲 black powder,with a black powder clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue,red2,with a red 2clue, Bob 🡲 and so after red2,with a red 2clue, discard then slots 3 and 4 must be playable. However in the game there were only two valid bluff targets available:

repeat blue or 2 on blue2,with a blue 2clue, (which gives no new information on the target)
red1,with a red 1clue, trash bluff (which protects yellow4,with a yellow 4clue, for one extra turn)

both options are low in value and not enough context for Bob to know that their slot 1 was unplayable.

But why would Alice skip Bob with the green3,with a green 3clue, fix or the green5,with a green 5clue, save?

Just one example is enough to show that Bob should discard with a playable slot 1: With red2,with a red 2clue,multicolour2,with a multicolour 2clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,red2,with a red 2clue, Bob 🡲 the team will wait for red2,with a red 2clue, discard so that they can clue red to splash a valuable multicolour2,with a multicolour 2clue,.

From Alice's view there was also low urgency to clue yellow1,with a yellow 1clue, / red2,with a red 2clue, since yellow2,with a yellow 2clue, / red3,with a red 3clue, were not visible.

⯇

↺

Endgame

3cards in the deckred3yellow4green5blue5white1multicolorblack powder 3 clue tokens

card back,with a clue,card back,with a clue,card back4,with a 4clue,card back5,with a 5clue, Alice 🡲 white2,with a white 2clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue, Bob 🡲 black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red4,with a red 4clue,white5,with a white 5clue, Cathy 🡲 white3,with a white 3clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue, Donald 🡲 white4,with a white 4clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,white3,with a white 3clue, Emily 🡲

What is the critical colour?

Grouped by colour:

black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,

black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red4,with a red 4clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue, red5,with a red 5clue,

white,with a white clue,white2,with a white 2clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,white3,with a white 3clue, white4,with a white 4clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,white5,with a white 5clue,

white (1 clue + 4 plays + 3 empty = 8 turns)

What is the critical card?

white2,with a white 2clue,

What is the critical move?

A) Alice clues Bob white2,with a white 2clue, / white2,with a white 2clue,

hint: don't choose A

B) Alice clues Donald white3,with a white 3clue, / white3,with a white 3clue,

C) Alice clues Emily white4,with a white 4clue, / white4,with a white 4clue,

D) Alice discards white4,with a white 4clue,

E) Alice (mis)plays white4,with a white 4clue,

F) Alice discards slot 1

G) Alice (mis)plays slot 1

What is the maximum score?

29

1. Group by colour:

black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,

black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red4,with a red 4clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue, red5,with a red 5clue,

white,with a white clue,white2,with a white 2clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,white3,with a white 3clue, white4,with a white 4clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,white5,with a white 5clue,

2. Serialise:

white,with a white clue,white2,with a white 2clue,red4,with a red 4clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,white3,with a white 3clue, white4,with a white 4clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,white5,with a white 5clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue, red5,with a red 5clue,

3cards in the deck2cards in the deck1cards in the deck0cards in the deckcards in the deck cards in the deckcards in the deckcards in the deckcards in the deck

There are not enough turns for Alice to clue white2,with a white 2clue, and play both white4,with a white 4clue, and red5,with a red 5clue,.
Can Alice shorten the critical path?

30

1. Group by colour:

black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,

black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,red4,with a red 4clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue, red5,with a red 5clue,

white,with a white clue,white2,with a white 2clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,white3,with a white 3clue,white4,with a white 4clue, black powder,with a black powder clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,white5,with a white 5clue,

2. Serialise:

white,with a white clue,white2,with a white 2clue,red4,with a red 4clue,white3,with a white 3clue,white4,with a white 4clue, red5,with a red 5clue,black powder,with a black powder clue,white5,with a white 5clue,yellow5,with a yellow 5clue,

3cards in the deck2cards in the deck1cards in the deck0cards in the deckcards in the deck cards in the deckcards in the deckcards in the deckcards in the deck

Alice clues the unmarked white4,with a white 4clue, in Emily's hand (finesse) so that Alice has one card fewer to play and shortens the critical path.

Solution

A) Alice clues Bob white2,with a white 2clue, / white2,with a white 2clue, ❌ does not get the unmarked white3,with a white 3clue, / white4,with a white 4clue,

B) Alice clues Donald white3,with a white 3clue, / white3,with a white 3clue, ❌ does not get the unmarked white4,with a white 4clue,

C) Alice clues Emily white4,with a white 4clue, / white4,with a white 4clue, ❌ does not get the unmarked white3,with a white 3clue,

D) Alice discards white4,with a white 4clue, ✅ finesses up to white4,with a white 4clue,

E) Alice (mis)plays white4,with a white 4clue, ❌ interpretation = positional misplay

F) Alice discards slot 1 ✅ Donald and Emily both see Alice could have clued instead white4,with a white 4clue,

G) Alice (mis)plays slot 1 ❌ interpretation = positional misplay

Other possible options include trash push if both of Emily's other cards are the same rank (not 4) or colour (not white) e.g red1,with a red 1clue, yellow1,with a yellow 1clue, then Alice could clue red1,with a red 1clue, yellow1,with a yellow 1clue, to Emily's hand white4,with a white 4clue,red1,with a red 1clue,yellow1,with a yellow 1clue,white3,with a white 3clue, Emily 🡲

.

< Page 1

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{pill|⚠ Work in progress|#fa8|#fc8|s=1.2}}
 {{info|This is page 2 of [[User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi/Examples|Hanabi Examples]]}}
+== High trust deduction or blunder? ==
+[https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/260930-1321/?table=924992121&player=100309452&comments= Alice's view] |
+[https://boardgamearena.com/archive/replay/260930-1321/?table=924992121&player=84994396&comments= Bob's view] | 2026-10-02
+{{hPlay|4steps=
+|note1={{text|Alice to Cathy: this card is a 3.|#f4f4f4|x=5|y=5}}
+Alice skips Bob with the {{hg|3|c=|n=}} fix to encourage Bob's first discard of the game.
+Since there is high trust, the unnecessary loss of {{hy|1}} earlier means Bob holds at least one other copy of {{hy|1}}.
+|note2=Bob discards {{hr|2}}. Again since there is high trust, Bob knows they must hold the other copy of {{hr|2}} as well.
+|note3=Cathy plays {{hg|2|c=}}.
+Donald discards {{hy|4}}.
+Emily discards {{hw|4}}.
+|note4={{text|Alice to Emily: these three cards are 5s.|#f4f4f4|x=5|y=5}}
+Alice saves {{hg|5|n=}} because they think Bob knows to play {{hy|1}} and {{hr|2}}, Cathy will play {{hg|3|c=|n=}} and Donald has no non-trash cards that can't be saved.
+Note this encourages:
+* play of {{hg|3|c=|n=}} {{s:)}} but with {{hk|4}} on chop {{s:(}}
+* discard of trash {{hr|1}} {{s:)}} and future discard of duplicate {{hm|3}} {{s:)}}
+* discard of {{hy|3}} {{s:(}} and potentially locking Emily's hand {{s:(}}
+If Alice instead discards, Cathy could save {{hg|5}} and Emily may gain something to clue in Alice's hand, turning all {{s:(}} into {{s:)}}.
+|note5={{pill|However does Bob really know if any of their slots can be safely played?|#faa|#fcc}}
+Assuming {{hy|1}} and {{hr|2}} were in Bob's starting hand, the possible combinations were:
+{{cardholder|{{hr|2}}{{hy|1}}{{hk}}{{hr|2}} |Bob 🡲}}
+{{cardholder|{{hr|2}}{{hk}}{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}} |Bob 🡲}}
+{{cardholder|{{hk}}{{hr|2}}{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}} |Bob 🡲}}
+{{cardholder|{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}}{{hk}}{{hr|2}} |Bob 🡲}}
+{{cardholder|{{hy|1}}{{hk}}{{hr|2}}{{hr|2}} |Bob 🡲}}
+{{cardholder|{{hk}}{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}}{{hr|2}} |Bob 🡲}}
+where {{hk}} is any card, for example an unplayable {{hm|2}}.
+{{pill|Can Bob narrow down the possibilities?|#faa|#fcc}}
+If there were just one more piece of contextual information to reduce the possible slot positions, such as a nice {{hm|2}} bluff target that went unused while {{hy|1}} / {{hr|2}} was in slot 1 of the starting hand, then the only possibilities that remain would be:
+{{cardholder|{{hk}}{{hr|2}}{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}} |Bob 🡲}}
+{{cardholder|{{hk}}{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}}{{hr|2}} |Bob 🡲}}
+and so after {{hr|2}} discard then slots 3 and 4 must be playable.
+However in the game there were only two valid bluff targets available:
+# repeat blue or 2 on {{hb|2|c=}} (which gives no new information on the target)
+# {{hr|1}} trash bluff (which protects {{hy|4}} for one extra turn)
+both options are low in value and not enough context for Bob to know that their slot 1 was unplayable.
+{{pill|But why would Alice skip Bob with the {{hg|3|c=|n=}} fix or the {{hg|5|n=}} save?|#afa|#cfc}}
+Just one example is enough to show that Bob should discard with a playable slot 1:
+With {{cardholder|{{hr|2}}{{hm|2}}{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}} |Bob 🡲}} the team will wait for {{hr|2}} discard so that they can clue red to splash a valuable {{hm|2}}.
+From Alice's view there was also low urgency to clue {{hy|1}} / {{hr|2}} since {{hy|2}} / {{hr|3}} were not visible.
+|{{hGame
+|{{hTable|1||1||1|m=|k=}}
+|{{hDiscard|y=1|k=3}}
+|clues=4
+|a={{hm|4}}{{hg|3}}{{hg|4}}{{hr|3}}
+|b={{hr|4}}{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}}{{hr|2}}
+|c={{hg|1}}{{hk|4}}{{hg|3|c=|n=}}{{hg|2|c=}}
+|d={{hm|3}}{{hr|1}}{{hy|4}}{{hb|2|c=}}
+|e={{hg|5}}{{hy|5|n=}}{{hw|4}}{{hw|5|n=}}
+}}
+|{{hGame
+|{{hTable|1||1||1|m=|k=}}
+|{{hDiscard|r=2|y=1|k=3}}
+|clues=5
+|a={{hm|4}}{{hg|3}}{{hg|4}}{{hr|3}}
+|b={{hr|3}}{{hr|4}}{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}}
+|c={{hg|1}}{{hk|4}}{{hg|3|c=|n=}}{{hg|2|c=}}
+|d={{hm|3}}{{hr|1}}{{hy|4}}{{hb|2|c=}}
+|e={{hg|5}}{{hy|5|n=}}{{hw|4}}{{hw|5|n=}}
+}}
+|{{hGame
+|{{hTable|1||2||1|m=|k=}}
+|{{hDiscard|r=2|y=14|w=4|k=3}}
+|clues=7
+|a={{hm|4}}{{hg|3}}{{hg|4}}{{hr|3}}
+|b={{hr|3}}{{hr|4}}{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}}
+|c={{hr|1}}{{hg|1}}{{hk|4}}{{hg|3|c=|n=}}
+|d={{hm|3}}{{hm|3}}{{hr|1}}{{hb|2|c=}}
+|e={{hy|3}}{{hg|5}}{{hy|5|n=}}{{hw|5|n=}}
+}}
+|{{hGame
+|{{hTable|1||2||1|m=|k=}}
+|{{hDiscard|r=2|y=14|w=4|k=3}}
+|clues=6
+|a={{hm|4}}{{hg|3}}{{hg|4}}{{hr|3}}
+|b={{hr|3}}{{hr|4}}{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}}
+|c={{hr|1}}{{hg|1}}{{hk|4}}{{hg|3|c=|n=}}
+|d={{hm|3}}{{hm|3}}{{hr|1}}{{hb|2|c=}}
+|e={{hy|3}}{{hg|5|n=}}{{hy|5|n=}}{{hw|5|n=}}
+}}
+|{{hGame
+|{{hTable|1||2||1|m=|k=}}
+|{{hDiscard|r=2|y=14|w=4|k=3}}
+|clues=6
+|a={{hm|4}}{{hg|3}}{{hg|4}}{{hr|3}}
+|b={{hr|3}}{{hr|4}}{{hy|1}}{{hr|2}}
+|c={{hr|1}}{{hg|1}}{{hk|4}}{{hg|3|c=|n=}}
+|d={{hm|3}}{{hm|3}}{{hr|1}}{{hb|2|c=}}
+|e={{hy|3}}{{hg|5|n=}}{{hy|5|n=}}{{hw|5|n=}}
+}}
+}}
 == <div style="background:linear-gradient(45deg,#aff,#cfd,#fff0 40rem);padding:.25rem .5rem;border-top-left-radius:.5rem;">Endgame</div> ==
@@ Line 74: / Line 185: @@
 :C) Alice clues Emily {{hw|4|n=}} / {{hw|4|c=}} ❌ does not get the unmarked {{hw|3}}
 :D) Alice discards {{hw|4}} ✅ finesses up to {{hw|4}}
-:E) Alice (mis)plays {{hw|4}} ❌ interpretation = [[Gamehelphanabi#Advanced|positional misplay]]
+:E) Alice (mis)plays {{hw|4}} ❌ interpretation = [[Tips_hanabi|positional misplay]]
 :F) Alice discards slot 1 ✅ Donald and Emily both see Alice could have clued instead {{hw|4}}
-:G) Alice (mis)plays slot 1 ❌ interpretation = [[Gamehelphanabi#Advanced|positional misplay]]
+:G) Alice (mis)plays slot 1 ❌ interpretation = [[Tips_hanabi|positional misplay]]
 Other possible options include [https://en.doc.boardgamearena.com/index.php?title=User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi/Examples#Advanced_Techniques trash push] if both of Emily's other cards are the same rank (not 4) or colour (not white) e.g {{hr|1}} {{hy|1}} then Alice could clue {{hr|1|n=}} {{hy|1|n=}} to Emily's hand {{cardholder|{{hw|4}}{{hr|1|n=}}{{hy|1|n=}}{{hw|3|n=|c=}} |Emily 🡲}}
 .
 }}
+<div style="display:flex;justify-content:space-between;">{{text|[[User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi/Examples|< Page 1]]|s=2}}<!--{{text|[[User:Sammy_McSam/Hanabi/Examples_page_3|Page 3 >]]|s=2}}--></div>

User:Sammy McSam/Hanabi/Examples page 2: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 23:23, 3 October 2026

High trust deduction or blunder?

Endgame

What is the maximum score?

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